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[Chat (Android)] Guide to Permastun

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#1
Posted on 10/22/14 8:10:19 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

There are a lot of posts asking how to achieve a permastun. Thisguide is intended to show the various methods which can be used. First a fewdefinitions and misconceptions:

·        A true permastun can be repeated with eachattempt. Relying on HB to get a lucky stun does not give a true permastun

·        Dryad’s attack speed is 1.5 seconds so she can’tbe used to synchronized with the other stun heroes (who all have a 1 second attackspeed).

·        After the first hit, your heroes will proc every7 hits. Therefore your stun needs to last 7 hits to achieve a permastun.

·        Immo will always stun on the first hit, and withonly one target he will always hit that target at the beginning of his skill.Therefore against the Boss Immo will stun for 1 second at the beginning of hisskill.

·        Permastun is not always desired against Boss1 orBoss2 as you may get more damage with other strategies; particularly if youhave PD.

Now to the various strategies.

Shard-able Hero Stun

Heroes: Champion, Executioner (4/9), TG, and Immo for stun. Adddruid and another dps (with 6th hero base).

Rationale: With the four heroes you get 7.5 seconds of stun whichis more than the 7 seconds you need for a permastun.

Considerations: The timing has to be exact and is verytricky. You can not have berserk 4/5 or 5/5 on any of the stun heroes or theywill hit faster and be out of synch. You can not use cupid or his energy boostwill throw your heroes out of synch. Without the PD or Cupid buff your damagewill be fairly low (5 – 10 mil in 3 minutes), although higher then without apermastun. This is the only permastun available if you don’t have PD.

Execution: Most adopted method is to drop druid, wait foragro then drop champion, wait for stun and drop executioner, before Executioner’sthird hit drop TG, before the TG’s second hit drop immo. Keep in mind that theheroes “hit” the instant the animation starts and not when they appear to hit. Soif you drop your immo as TG’s hammer is hitting the target you’ve waited toolong, you need to drop the next hero right beforethe animation starts.

PD, no berserk onchampion, no cupid

Heroes: PD, champion, TG, Executioner or Immo for stun. Adddruid and another dps (with 6th hero base).

Rationale: This method is similar to the above but since youhave PD you’ll be hitting faster and won’t need as many stun heroes. The timingwill also be easier since you have more room for error.

Considerations: The skill level of your PD will dictate howmany stun heroes you need. You will spend most of the fight with 1 – 2 stacks.PD 4/9 will be at 800 ms for the whole fight so you need .8*7 seconds = 5.6seconds of stun and therefore at least 3 stun heroes. PD 5+/9 will be at 800 mswith 1 stack, and 600 ms with 2 stacks and can get away with only 2 stunheroes, although 3 is much easier to pull off. Executioner 4/9 has a two secondstun and is much easier to use for your third stun then immo. Since you havethe PD buff your damage will be better than the first method.

Execution: Drop PD, wait for agro, drop druid and other nonstun heroes, wait till the last moment and drop GA, wait for stun and dropchamp, wait 3.8 seconds drop executioner, wait 2.5 seconds and drop TG. Thetiming may be a bit different based on the level of revite. The idea is tomaximize the hits on PD and the energy gain to get your stacks going, but havethe champion stun hit before GA wears off.

PD with berserk,champion with berserk, no cupid

Heroes: PD, Champion. Add druid and dps.

Rationale: With berserk your PD and/or champion are hitting fasterso can achieve a stun with only champion.  

Considerations: Requires high berserk on both PD ANDchampion and high skill on PD. At 400 ms your PD can sustain 2 stacks withoutcupid. The level of berserk required will depend on your skill. With 5/5berserk you can hit 400 ms in two stacks of PD 7/9, with 3-4 /5 berserk you canhit 400 ms in two stacks of PD 8/9. Your champion will also need to hit the 400ms speed to enable the permastun (0.4 *7 hits =2.8 seconds). With PD 7/9 youwill need 5/5 berserk on champion, with PD 8/9 you will need 3-4 /5 berserk onchampion, with PD 9/9 you will need 2/5 berserk on champion. If you do not havea high enough berserk on both your heroes then ditch the berserk on thechampion and use the method above.

Execution: Drop PD to tank, wait for agro and drop all othernon stunners, hit GA at last moment, and drop champion about halfway through GA.

PD with cupid

Heroes: PD, cupid, Champion. Add druid and dps.

Rationale: The extra energy of cupid will allow you toachieve 3 PD stacks and a permastun with only PD and champion but without the need for berserk.Since you have all three buffers your damage will be high. This is only method thatallows you to hit the 200 ms cap and 120 mil in 3 minutes.

Considerations: You want both your PD and your champion tobe at 400 ms. At 400 ms your PD can sustain 3 stacks with cupid 4+ /9 to help.At 400 ms your champion can permastun. The minimum required is PD 7/9 withcupid 4/9. Having berserk will allow for lower PD skill levels.

Hope that helps. Please post any clarifications orquestions.

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#2
Posted on 10/22/14 8:17:49 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

some solid advice nice thread mate

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#3
Posted on 10/22/14 8:22:11 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

Even though this subject has been posted SOOOOOO many times, i appreciate you made it into an official thread instead of commenting on someones post so that everyone knows where it is. :)

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#4
Posted on 11/7/14 9:51:31 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Thanks very much for the thread, I was looking for something like that.
I'd like to add some info and links.

No pd no cupid. Same strategy as in main thread.
This video explain in details the strategy you described
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4jX3lgcu5A
Since in the above video it is difficult to see how many times an hero hits, I have recorded this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDDpLT2l2G0&feature=em-upload_owner

Pd, no berserk, no cupid.
As explained in the main thread you can sync champ and tg and go the full three minutes wihtout berserk.
Here is how I do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFCuUw4d20&feature=youtu.be
What you need is pd at least 5. Immo is not needed, just used as dps (now I have replaced him with snowzilla). Higher berserk on champ, tg or pd may ruin the synchronization depending on pd skill level. Also if some among champ, tg or pd has revitilize, a change in the drop timing is needed.

A suggestion for both methods: drop the stunners on the boss but a bit below him, so that you can see exactly how many times this hero hits. This helped me a lot at the beginning.

Full three minutes without permastun. I never tried, but, using pd, there are also debuffing methods using heroes like shaman or (if you have) moltanica which allows to get better results in terms of damage. I have found very interesting all the experiments of forceclosed and I suggest to take a look at his youtube channel.

Hope this will help!

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#5
Posted on 12/1/14 9:06:50 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

I found this new strategy for permastunning the boss with pd and cupid together. Hope it'll help.

Pd and Cupid, no berserk.
Requirements: pd skill level at least 7, cupid skill level at least 4 but at most 6.
Here is a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYTvm5Mm8Io&feature=em-upload_owner

Although the pd in the video has berserk 2, this is not needed, actually it is useless :)
Explaination of the strategy:
Drop pd as a tank, as soon as the boss hits pd drop cupid and then GA. Wait for the stun.
When the boss is going to hit for the second time after the coma, drop champion.
As soon as champ has finished is third hit drop tg.

After this, you can drop your other heroes, I suggest druid and immo/snowzilla. Now with incriptions levelled up and adding druid and reaper I do 85 millions in one run! In any case with this method it is also possible to get max reward but to stay low in damage.

This method should not work with a cupid skill level 7 and above. It is still unclear to me if it is possible to obtain a permastun with a similar strategy in this situation, unless cupid has some revitilize.

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#6
Posted on 12/1/14 11:10:11 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

Nice thread. One question about the pd cupid champ perma stun,  will  4/5 berserk on pd 6/9 give me permastun with cupid at 4/9 and champ and zerk 2/5? Or will I need berserk 5/5 or else pd 7/9?

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#7
Posted on 12/2/14 9:56:33 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Edited by jabuzzard at 12-2-2014 10:07 AM

I permastun with the Champion/Executioner, TG and Immortep method daily and I would add a couple of points. Firstly while it is possible with Executioner at 4/9 it is next to impossible to achieve reliably. Realistically you need to get the Executioner to 7/9, at which point it is possible to do reliably.

Secondly Heavy Blow is a forbidden talent on Champion and Druid. Basically the drop method using Druid, then Champion then Executioner gets completely messed up if a heavy blow stuns the boss before the boss stuns the Champion and Druid, which is your queue to drop the Executioner.  Note if you have a 7/9 Executioner you could drop him first and Champion second if your Executioner does not have a heavy blow talent and Champion does.

With inscriptions and 8* heroes you can easily do 12 million damage in three minutes. My guess is with the right talents and lv180 heroes and lv80 inscriptions maximum damage will be around 16 million. Currently I use Succubus as my sixth hero, but I recently rolled a Ninja and when levelled up a bit I plan on trying him out to see if he does more damage. I do have a Grizzly Reaper but not sure if he does more damage than Succubus. He certainly didn't in the past but inscriptions might have changed the balance.

Finally if you ever do get a PD, you can start using him almost immediately as a sixth hero (assuming you have six hero bases) to improve the amount of damage done by dropping him last instead of your highest DPS hero.

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#8
Posted on 12/2/14 2:31:38 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

I agree, also slowdown can create problems. This is common to all permastun methods listed above, you always want to avoid having heavy blow or slowdown on the heroes you drop before the stun of the boss.

On the reliability, I have to admit that permastun without pd is the most difficult I have tried. I needed a lot of tries before being able to do that. But it is also true that once you get used, you can achive it most of the times, say with a 75% percentage of success (depending on the concentration :)). Also if you fail, you may have a second chance.

In any case I think that it is the most efficient way to do some consistent damage to the boss if you don't have pd, also if you have a cupid. Before getting a pd I was able to achive 36 millions daily with this method, in like 6 permastuns (I had 5 heroes). Of course this was possible because the boss fight lasted a lot, say at least 25 minutes.
This method is anyway the best also in big guilds. The ideal situation is to make a permastun just after the beginning (so 10 millions) and when it is over, if you are lucky enough that the boss is still alive, make another one. If for instance the boss still has 10 millions left, you will do at least 20 millions at the end, which is really good without a pd.

About making a permastun with pd as sixth hero you are right, other people told me the same thing. Anyway once pd is 5 I suggest to change strategy, removing executioner. (Saw many people with a pd 7 still using executioner). The reason is that executioner is not a great damage dealer, ninja, reaper or succubus are way better, while the best remain immo and, above all, snowzilla. If you ever get a snowzilla I suggest him in place of ninja/succ/reaper.

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#9
Posted on 12/2/14 3:43:34 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

THANK YOU I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS

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#10
Posted on 12/17/14 5:02:28 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

I am going to add that I think the maximum damage to the boss in three minutes using shard only heroes is going to be well in excess of 20 million. I am currently doing over 15 million damage in three minutes with

Druid lv157-5/9. 3/5 Tenacity and lv80 inscription with lv1 flame guard
Thunder God, lv154-5/9, 3/5 Heavy Blow and lv 80 inscription with lv1 blade shell
Immortep, lv 152-5/9, 4/5 Heavy Blow and lv80 inscription, with lv1 flame guard
Champion, lv150-5/9, 2/5 War God and lv48 inscription, with lv1 scorch
Succubus, lv150-6/9, 4/5 Sprint and lv42 inscription, with lv1 flame guard
Executioner, lv138-7/9, 2/5 Heavy Blow and lv45 inscription with lv2 sprint

There are some lv2 crests scattered amount the lv1 sets, but only Executioner has a complete set of lv2 crests.

My gut feeling is that with six lv180 heroes at 9/9 skill with the right talents and lv100 inscriptions you could get maximum damage in a tier 3 boss fight with a single drop. I am thinking 5/5 Berserk on Druid, and the DPS hero, and 5/5 War God on the stunners. Not sure what the second talent should be. Probably a 5/5 bulwark all round for the extra damage.

It might be possible to maintain the permastun if all your stunners have the same level of Berserk. Theory being that they will maintain their synchronization because while their ATK is faster it will still be all the same. Next to impossible to arrange as the primary talents but in theory doable with secondary talents.

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