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[Guides] Solo Boss 3 - No PD, No HB, No Cupid

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Posted on 5/21/14 6:22:43 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Edited by ForceClosed at 10-12-2014 08:16 AM

NOTICE: This thread was written before the introduction of boss magic. With boss magic we are able to give invulnerability for 8 seconds which may allow you to set up perm stun without the proper revitalize talents. This will require precise timing to get the drops right, but at least you can do it with crappy talents.

This thread will break down how to perm-stun and SOLO boss 3 without PD, Cupid, or Heavy Blow. Be warned: it is in-depth.

Before I get started, you must understand some of my terminology:
DPS = Damage Per Second. Heroes with faster attack rates than 1000 ms are corrected to reflect a 1000 ms attack rate.
ADPS = Auto-Attack DPS
TDPS = Total DPS
Any of the above with "C" in front = Collective or Aggregate
DMG = Attack = Damage
ATK Rate = ms between attack intervals
ATK Speed = how quickly a hero attacks
           ****ATK Rate and ATK Speed are different**** The formula is ATK Rate / ATK Speed (boost) = Real ATK Rate. e.g. 1000 / 1.3 = ~769 (but of course this rounds up to X00).

All heroes are calculated at 9/9 skills and lvl 180 (9 star).

1.      Champion

a.      5/5 Revit

b.     4039 DMG

c.      310% proc

d.     3 second stun

2.      Thunder God

a.      3/5 Revit

b.     3949 DMG

c.      440% proc

d.     1.5 second stun

3.      Executioner

a.      2/5 Revit

b.     3590 DMG

c.      360% proc

d.     3 second stun

4.      Druid

a.      4/5+ Berserk

b.     3635 DMG

c.      32% Buff to all

5.      Snowzilla

a.      5/5 War God

b.     3725 DMG

c.      7x 275% proc

6.      Immortep

a.      5/5 War God

b.     3232 DMG

c.      6x 280% (average) proc

7.      Ninja

a.      5/5 War God

b.     5071 DMG

c.      750% (capped at 35k) proc

Talents Explained

War God vs Berserk:

Berserk heroes will attack at the rate of 800 ms and Ninja will attack at 700 ms. War God heroes will attack at normal rate, but at 30% DMG (1.3x multiplier).

Snowzilla will proc every 5.6 seconds instead of 7 seconds, which does not interfere with his 4 second cooldown. He will deal 3725 / .8 =4656.25 ADPS from auto attack. His proc will inflict 3725 x 2.75 = 10244.5 (rounded) x 7 = 71711 damage every 5.6 seconds which equals out to 12805.5 PDPS. SZ’s total DPS with berserk is 12805.5 + 4656.25 = 17461.75 TDPS.

Snowzilla with War God will proc every 7 seconds. His newbase attack damage is 3725 x 1.3 = 4842.5 ADPS. His proc is now 4842.5 x 2.75 =13316.875 x 7 = 93218.125 damage every 7 seconds which equals out to 13316.875 PDPS. SZ’s total DPS with War God is 13316.875 + 4842.5 = 18159.375.

Immortep with berserk will interfere with his 6 second cooldown. Instead of proc’ing every 5.6 seconds like SZ, he will proc every 6.4 seconds due to the cooldown. His base attack will be 3232 / .8 = 4040 ADPS. His proc will inflict 3232 x 2.8 = 9049.6 x 6 (on average) = 54297.6 damage every 6.4 seconds which equals out to 8484 PDPS. His total DPS is 8484 + 4040 = 12524 TDPS.

Immortep with War God will proc every 7 seconds – a mere .6 seconds less frequently than with berserk. His base damage is 3232 x 1.3 =4201.6 ADPS. His proc will inflict 4201.6 x 2.8 = 11764.5 (rounded) x 6 = 70587 damage every 7 seconds which equals out to 10084 (rounded) PDPS. His total DPSis 10084 + 4201.6 = 14285.6 TDPS.

Ninja with berserk 2/5+ can only reach the 700 ms threshold without PD’s boost. Ninja will proc every 4.9 seconds. His base attack is 5071/ .7 = 7244 (rounded) ADPS. His proc will deal 35k due to the cap. 35k every 4.9 seconds equals out to 7143 (rounded) PDPS. His total DPS is 7143 + 7244 =14387 TDPS.

Ninja with War God will attack every 800 ms which is a proc every 5.6 seconds. His base attack will be 5071 x 1.3 = 6592.3 / .8 = 8240 ADPS. His proc will also cap at 35k, but every 5.6 seconds, which equals out to 6250 PDPS. His total DPS will be 8240 + 6250 = 14490 TDPS.

Despite War God being the better talent for DPS, I would advise getting berserk because you only need 2/5 talent opposed to a 5/5 wargod. For the purpose of my calculations I will use WG, but I strongly recommend not aiming for WG since Berserk only needs lvl 2+.

Druid must have berserk instead of war god because his buff relies on activating quickly due to a 5 second duration. While his individual DPS may be better with War God, his collective DPS will be lower. His attack rate will be 800 ms which means he will proc every 5.6 seconds. This leaves .6 seconds of no buff every 5.6 seconds. I’m going to call this a 90% buff rate, so 10% of the time everyone will be attacking at normal damage.

The stunners have revitalize of specific levels in order to set the perm-stun in action and maintain the stun cycle throughout all 3minutes. No heavy blow is needed, no slowdown, and no other influences. All 3 minutes can be achieved through these 3 heroes only. Druid will take agro from a distance, and either champion or executioner (interchangeable) will stun on the first attack. 3 seconds later, TG will stun for at least a second. On the 4th second, the final stunner will put the boss in a coma for 3 more seconds until the 7th second when the first stunner will then begin his second proc. From there it will be in full cycle.

Damage Against Boss:

While experimenting with various heroes I found a discrepancy between listed damage and the output against the boss. This discrepancy is not found in the arena, and as far as I’m aware it is not in HBM or raids either. My heroes would hit between 10% and 40% higher than the base damage - never equal to or less than. I’m going to use a 25% DMG bonus to all heroes against the boss as an average.

Now for the calculations:

I’m going to calculate Auto-Attack DPS for each hero with the boss bonus 25%, multiply by druid’s buff, add them all together, and finally add all Proc DPS to get the Collective TDPS.

Champion has 4039 x 1.25 = 5048.75 ADPS.

Thunder God has 3949 x 1.25 = 4935.25 ADPS.

Executioner has 3590 x 1.25 = 4487.5 ADPS.

Druid has 3635 x 1.25 = 4543.75 / .8 = 5680 (rounded) ADPS.

Snowzilla has 4842.5 x 1.25 = 6053 (rounded) ADPS.

Ninja has 8240 x 1.25 = 10300 ADPS.

Collective ADPS is 36504.25 x .1 (non-druid buff) = 3650.5. With druid buff is 36504.25 x .9 = 32854.05 x 1.32 = 43367.5 (rounded). Add them together for 47018 Collective ADPS.

Champion’s proc is ADPS x 3.1 = 15651 (rounded) / 7 = 2236PDPS.

Thunder God’s proc is ADPS x 4.4 = 21715 (rounded) / 7 = 3102 PDPS.

Executioner’s proc is ADPS x 3.6 = 16155 / 7 = 2308 (rounded) PDPS.

Druid has no PDPS.

Snowzilla’s proc is ADPS x 2.75 = 16645.75 PDPS.

Ninja’s proc is 35k / 5.6 = 6250 PDPS.

Collective PDPS is a complicated formula. Basically it’s 2429.175 + 28858.6 + 6250 = 37538 (rounded)

Collective TDPS is 37538 + 47018 = 84556.

With this team you will deal nearly 85k damage per second and have a chain stun without Pumpkin Duke or Cupid. This mean in 3 minutes you will deal 15,220,080 damage and will solo the boss in just about 24 minutes. Total Damage in 30 minutes is roughly 152.2 million, so you should have some time to spare.

Of course the calculations were done with end-game heroes, which most people won’t ever have… so what is the requirement to solo boss 3 without PD?

All talents will remain the same, but skill levels and hero levels will be reduced to an appropriate level. Well there are 1800 seconds allotted in a boss battle, so at a minimum you need to deal at least 66,667 damage per second. This assumes no down time and no mistakes. So now we know what to aim for, let’s see what other team combinations can bring.

I’ve calculated the same heroes at level 140 and only 4/9 skills (except druid 5/9 and exec at 7/9). This ended up being 35010 CADPS and 20147 CPDPS for a CTDPS of 55157 (rounding involved). 55k does not meet the required 66.6k DPS.

With the same heroes again, but this time lvl 160 (only 8star) with 7/9 skills on all heroes (ninja not necessary) they will deal 40905 CADPS and 28850 CPDPS for a CTDPS of 69755 (rounding involved). This does meet the required 66.6k, but there isn’t much room for error or down time… so it’s still risky.


Perm-stun is very possible with 3 heroes if you don’t have PD. It does, however, require the correct talents on the correct heroes. Although perm-stun is possible, which will allow you to compete with the heavy-hitters, you will still lack the damage needed to solo the boss until around lvl 160 heroes with 7/9 skills. At 9 star heroes with 9/9 skills it is very possible to solo boss 3 in under 24 minutes… all without PD or Cupid!

Side notes:

I expected berserk to outshine war god for DPS, but calculations prove otherwise. Of course this is without PD, which could easily make berserk significantly more valuable than WG for boss fights.

I also expected Immortep to out DPS ninja, but apparently without PD, his proc cannot deal enough damage to compete with Ninja’s ATK speed and DMG. With PD in the picture, though, Immortep is almost on par with SZ, which both are better than ninja for boss fights.

Real Attack Rate is slightly slower than the attack rate on paper... by nearly 10%. With that in mind, be aware that the 69755 DPS of the lvl 160 team may not meet the required 66.6k. If you reduce the damage by 10% (since there are 10% fewer attacks) you will get a more accurate result. Regardless of the modifier, a lvl 180 9/9 team will still be able to solo.

Here you go Rawtism. I just saw your video saying to prove you wrong about solo'ing boss 3 without PD; well here is your argument. This is completely theoretical, but I was very thorough with the math, and it closely resembles actual boss battles.

Posted on 5/21/14 6:30:35 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

I will give you all my favour for this thread

Posted on 5/21/14 6:40:35 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Possible but impractical.

Incredible guide. It's nice to see someone put in so much effort into something.

Posted on 5/21/14 6:44:24 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Nice work man.

Tarafınıza yapılan hakaret, küfür, ırkçılık vb. forumdışı söylemleri lütfen gözden kaçma ihtimaline karşı tarafıma özel mesaj yoluyla bildiriniz.
Posted on 5/21/14 6:48:19 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Wow that is cool stuff :) I can't believe you were so thorough lol. It is crazy to think how much of a difference PD/cupid make. It is so ridiculous soloing tier 3 without them. Obviously itd be more effecient to just redo an account with a PD...getting heroes with these talents without PD would be crazy.

Posted on 5/21/14 7:37:47 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

This was a great read.  Nice job!

Posted on 5/21/14 7:50:23 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Do you think Reaper is good for boss fight?

Posted on 5/21/14 8:19:04 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

If I am marking your math assignment, would definitely give you a A-
A+ if you include some excel charts and stuff. lol

Posted on 5/21/14 8:50:29 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

My suggestion is to take F2P off the title.

Look at the talent, how lucky needs to be to get so many high level ones on right heroes?:@ As a F2P, using free Gems, it will take forever or lottery-winning luck.:)

Posted on 5/21/14 8:55:25 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Geez, I'm sure it was an amazing guide, but seeing that it doesn't apply to me and I really don't have the time, have some free favors. You deserve them for how long your post is. :P