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[Guides] Calcs: Stacking PD + Druid + Cupid buff... OP?

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#1
Posted on 2/11/14 9:00:28 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

Edited by Randy_Keehnen(107489438) at 2-12-2014 07:03 PM

I was looking at a Druid+PD+CUP+SM+TG team. SM/TG can be freely replaced by other 1000 attack rate heroes. All heroes have 5/9 skill and no talents.

Without a cap on attack rate, PD will stack on more or less infinitely. 30 seconds into the fight, your team will be buffed with 8xPD, 6xDruid and 1x Cupid buff for a total of +4143% DMG, -94.24% Attack Rate, and +716% MOV SPD. All the Cupid buff really does here is speed up the process, Im sure people boss battling with Druid/PD/Champ/TG+1 reaching perma stun must have seen comparable results with heroes reaching crazy attack speeds, assuming you have a 5/9 PD. If you do not have PD at 5/9 yet, I strongly advice you to upgrade it asap. Should increase DMG dramatically.
With Cupid, the team procs within 3 seconds continuously (from t=13.93 in battle), giving you perma stun with just champion. So all you have to do is survive until that point in time. And then let the stacking go berserk.
Graph added below.

Based on an attack rate cap of 500, which apparently was a wrong assumption:
I found out that after 16.5 seconds after the first attack with this team, within each interval of 6 seconds, you will have:
2 procs of Druid, PD, SM and TG. 1 proc of Cupid.
3.5 seconds of triple PD, double Druid and single Cupid buff: +353% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds of triple PD, single Druid and single Cupid buff: +260% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds of double PD, double Druid and single Cupid buff: +249% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
1.5 Seconds of double PD, single Druid and single Cupid buff: +177% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD

More detailed calculation outcomes:
Assuming first attack at t=0 seconds...
t=7.00: The Druid, PD, SM and TG proc.
Attack Rate goes down to 700 for these heroes and to 840 for Cupid.
DMG goes up by 63.8% (1.3*1.26-1) for all heroes. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 30%.
t=8.04: The Cupid procs.
All Energy goes up with 30 points.
DMG is now up by 112.94% for all heroes.
t=10.50: The Druid, PD, SM and TG proc for a second time (the Cupid proc saves you 2 attacks!).
Attack Rate goes down to 500 (this is the minimum!) for these heroes and to 588 for Cupid.
DMG is now up by 248.80% for all heroes. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 69%.
t=12.00: First Druid buff wears off.
DMG is now up by 176.82% for all heroes.
t=14.00: The Druid, PD, SM and TG proc for a third time.
Attack Rate of all heroes is now 500. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 119.7%.
DMG is now up by 353.43% for all heroes.
t=14.04: Cupid buff wears off.
DMG is now up by 248.80% for all heroes.
t=14.09: The Cupid procs.
All Energy goes up with 30 points.
DMG is now up by 353.43% for all heroes.
t=15.00: First PD buff wears off.
Attack Rate goes back to 588 for Cupid. Rest still 500.
DMG is now up by 248.80% for all heroes. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 69%.
t=15.50: Second Druid buff wears off.
DMG is now up by 176.82% for all heroes.
t=16.50: The Druid, PD, SM and TG proc for a fourth time.
Attack Rate of all heroes is now 500. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 119.7%.
DMG is now up by 353.43% for all heroes.
T=18.50: Second PD buff wears off.
Attack Rate goes back to 588 for Cupid. Rest still 500.
DMG is now up by 248.80% for all heroes. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 69%.
t=19.00: Second Druid buff wears off.
DMG is now up by 176.82% for all heroes.
t=20.00: The Druid, PD, SM and TG proc for a fourth time.
Attack Rate of all heroes is now 500. Movement Speed of all heroes is up 119.7%.
DMG is now up by 353.43% for all heroes.
etc.

In the end you get into a loop (which started t=16.5 and repeats at t=22.5, 28.5, etc.);
2.0 Seconds +353% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds +249% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
1.0 Seconds +177% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
1.5 Seconds +353% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD (there will be a brief dive of DMG in the interval between Cupid proc wears off and new Cupid proc)
0.5 Seconds +260% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds +177% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
back to top.

So with this team, within each interval of 6 seconds you will have:
2 procs of Druid, PD, SM and TG. 1 proc of Cupid.
3.5 seconds of triple PD, double Druid and single Cupid buff: +353% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds of triple PD, single Druid and single Cupid buff: +260% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds of double PD, double Druid and single Cupid buff: +249% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
1.5 Seconds of double PD, single Druid and single Cupid buff: +177% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD

Maybe we need a cooldown on PD skill next to avoid these insane bonuses...?

Disclaimers:
1) These calculations assume continuous attacking by the heroes. I think this is fair considering that with their huge MOV SPD bonuses they will likely get from target to target within a hit.
2) These calculations exclude enemy attacks that fill up the energy meter; 15 per hero attack and 1 per tower/troop attack. Needless to say that with heroes under attack they will proc even faster, except for Cupid (due to cooldown).

EDIT: Updated the post for stacking without cap on attack rate.

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#2
Posted on 2/11/14 9:14:06 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

Very impressive, randy!

I haven't read through or check it myself yet, but I m sure you put a lot of work into it.

350% dmg buff seems very OP

Excellent job!

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#3
Posted on 2/11/14 9:22:50 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

well done! seems very powerful combo indeed.

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FU \0/
#4
Posted on 2/11/14 9:31:19 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

Edited by Randy_Keehnen(107489438) at 2-12-2014 03:35 AM

To compare: With Druid + PD stacking combo it will take 20.6 seconds to get into a perfect loop of 7 seconds.
2.0 Seconds +113% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
1.0 Seconds +249% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds +168% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
back to top (2x).

So with this team, within each interval of 7 seconds you will have:
2 procs of Druid, PD, SM, TG and your 5th 1000 attack rate hero.
1.0 Seconds of triple PD and double Druid buff: +249% DMG, -66% Attack Rate, +120% MOV SPD
0.5 Seconds of double PD and double Druid buff: +168% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD
2.0 Seconds of double PD and single Druid buff: +113% DMG, -51% Attack Rate, +69% MOV SPD

It is much harder to get into this loop as 1) it takes longer to get into the loop, and 2) there is an increased risk of having a gap between hits as the big MOV SPD bonus is significantly lower (2 out of 7 seconds) compared to the Cupid combo (4 out of 6 seconds).

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#5
Posted on 2/11/14 9:38:45 PM | Show thread starter's posts only

Interesting stuff! But are there any assumptions made in your calculations? Do we know everything does stack for sure?

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#6
Posted on 2/12/14 7:41:29 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

I would appreciate it if any of the Cupid rollers could confirm whether Cupid DMG buff indeed stacks with PD/Druid buff! :)

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#7
Posted on 2/12/14 7:48:34 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Why is 500 the minimum atk rate? i feel like when pd does a triple buff, he can hit faster then twice a sexond. Not to mention the reaper is not far from the 500 cap which makes pd buff with him kinds useless. Do you have proof the cap is 500?

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#8
Posted on 2/12/14 7:50:14 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Do have a minimum time the attack animations? I mean a ninja with atk speed 800 and these buffs...is the animation enought fast for? Normally in many games they put a cap on the attack rates for avoid imba combos or just for avoid viusal glitch

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#9
Posted on 2/12/14 8:11:02 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Wow...you willing to calculate all of that for a game..

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#10
Posted on 2/12/14 8:16:28 AM | Show thread starter's posts only

Edited by ygritt at 2-12-2014 08:26 AM

Randy_Keehnen(1 replied at 2-12-2014 07:41 AM static/image/common/back.gif
I would appreciate it if any of the Cupid rollers could confirm whether Cupid DMG buff indeed stacks ...

I can confirm that the PD's and Cupid's buff stack since I can see both their visual animations (pumpkin and heart on top of the heroes' heads) are ON at the same time during simultaneous proc. Presumably, the Druid's buff (no animation) gets also stacked with the PD and Cupid buffs.

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